HitFilm 2 Ultimate and Vegas Pro - How to test?

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Avalon

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I'm just trying to test how the "collaboration" between Vegas Pro 12 and HitFilms works. I only use the demo version of HitFilm and I can't make it working. Everythings fine from sending the clip from Vegas Pro to HitFilm. But I can't get the HitFilm output back to Vegas Pro.
Can't we test this with a demo version of HitFilm? This would be a very pitty because it's pretty important to have checked the complete signal flow.

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The Digital Media

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I read in the thread once you save the project in Hitfilm 2 it will update in Vegas. I can not get it to even open in Hitfilm 2 from Vegas pro. I followed the work around to remove all spaces and periods from the file name and it still did not work for me. I get the default start a new project screen. How did you get it to open from Vegas Pro in Hitfilm 2? This is the main selling point for me.

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Axel Wilkinson

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Make sure there are no spaces or underscores in the file path, not just the file name. If any of the folders in the file path have spaces, it can cause an issue with Vegas. Hopefully Sony will be able to improve this soon, but just eliminating any spaces or underscores in the file path should get you working for now.

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Avalon

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I saved the HitFilm project and there are no spaces, underscores etc. just regular/legal characters.
In the Vegas preview will be displayed: "Please activate HitFilm 2 Ultimate …". So this actually looks like it can't be tested with the HitFilm demo version.

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The Digital Media

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Yeah, I have deleted spaces and underscores in my entire path (file name/folders, etc) but it is not working for me.

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Avalon

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"How did you get it to open from Vegas Pro in Hitfilm 2?"

Right-click the video event in the Vegas Pro timeline and select "Apply HitFilm Effect" from the context menu.

The clip is then opened within HitFilm. Until here it works pretty fine for me. But the way back to Vegas Pro doesn't work with the HitFilm demo.

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The Digital Media

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Well I guess I'll have to wait until Sony provides a fix because I followed the right click, add Hitfilm effect with no spaces and underscores and it still will not work. I have used Sony editing software for years and it takes them for ever it seems like to provide fixes and updates. Hopefully they will resolve this issue quickly though.

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HitFilmer107567

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Same, same here. Alex et al will probably cringe when they see me back here...
But I get a slightly different outcome. Hit film opens with a red "Offline Material" dialogue in the Viewer pane. When I return to Vegas I see the same message in place of the original event, and then seem unable to restore the event.
I'm going to try a couple of other things and post if I have any luck.

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TomMc

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Sony actually released some updates last week, so it is worth double checking that you the most up to date version of Vegas running:

This is what told me yesterday:

• Vegas Pro build 394 and later will have timeline interop with both HitFilm 2 Ultimate and Express. If both are installed, it launches Ultimate.
• Movie Studio Platinum build 576 and later will have timeline interop with both HitFilm 2 Ultimate and Express. Again, if both are installed, it goes for Ultimate.


Both the builds 394 and 576 that I mention above were released to the public last week and are on our website. Both Suite discs also contain these latest builds.

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Avalon

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Unfortunately VP12 build 394 does not solve the problem of not sending the HitFilm output back to Vegas Pro when using the HitFilm demo. I'm pretty sure this is a demo limitation.

Movie Studio Platinum build 576 does not interop with HitFilm (at least not in the way Vegas Pro does).

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TomMc

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Unfortunately VP12 build 394 does not solve the problem of not sending the HitFilm output back to Vegas Pro when using the HitFilm demo. I'm pretty sure this is a demo limitation.

Movie Studio Platinum build 576 does not interop with HitFilm (at least not in the way Vegas Pro does).


Avalon - yes the Vegas functionality is not present in the HF demo, otherwise it would be possible to export via Vegas and have full access to HitFilm for free...

In terms of build 576, I would suggest that you report the problem to Sony.

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Avalon

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"In terms of build 576, I would suggest that you report the problem to Sony."

Actually I doubt Movie Studio is supposed to offer such a HitFilm workflow. What SCS says is:
"If you have FXhome HitFilm 2 Express installed, you can use HitFilm projects on the Movie Studio timeline."
So it looks like only HitFilm 2 Express project files are supported by Movie Studio for decoding and not in the way HitFilm can be used from within Vegas Pro (by sending a timeline event to HitFilm).

"otherwise it would be possible to export via Vegas and have full access to HitFilm for free..."

But why not just adding a watermark? The given way we cannot check if the workflow really works like expected including preservation of color spaces, alpha channels, floating point behaviour etc.

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TomMc

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Avalon

Despite the wording on the Sony website they have confirmed the Movie Studio should have interoperability with both Ultimate & Express versions of HitFilm 2, this is a direct quote from their lead developer on the project:

"Movie Studio Platinum build 576 and later will have timeline interop with both HitFilm 2 Ultimate and Express. Again, if both are installed, it goes for Ultimate."

The reason we can't just add a watermark system to the demo is that it would completely alter our demo model, and/or the Vegas module would have to be re-coded for demo version, and we don't currently see that as a good use of dev time.

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HitFilmer107567

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O.k. some answers, some more questions!

Thanks TomMc, yep I had installed the latest Vegas Pro update and reinstalled HF2 (in that order). No Luck, still received "offline media" message. When I looked in the Project Media pane of HF2 it was pointing to an VIDEO_TS folder in my working directory?! Don't know why Vegas or HF2 would have used that directory as the source files weren't there?

Solution: Created a new directory (containing no other folders!); copied video to it; created new project in Vegas using media from this directory. This time 'add HF effect' successfully launched HF2 and opened the event!

But (sigh) more strangeness. During this process Vegas changed the events 'pixel aspect ratio' from 1.09 (Pal DV) to 1.0. I blame Vegas for this as I can actually see it resize the events thumbnail image in the time line a second before HF2 launches (or does the HF2 'plugin' take over and do the resizing?). If I look at the project properties in HF2 it shows that the pixel aspect ratio is 1.09, but the image does not fill the frame but rather has black bars each side to fill the frame. To confound me further, if I change the PAR in Vegas to 1.0 to Match HF2, when I return the edited event from HF2 to Vegas it has changed the event to a PAR of 1.09! I also notice a difference in the colour saturation of the event when returned from HF2 - even when no effect has been applied at all.

It (HF2) also shows the 'Field Type' to be non-interlaced when the original is interlaced. However(!) if I right click on the media and select properties it shows Aspect = 1.0 (from file) and Field Type = interlaced (from file). I suppose it's legitimate for HF2 to have project properties different to media properties, but it is slightly misleading when used in a 'plug in' context.

So, who do I believe? When importing the same media into new blank projects HF2 tells me PAR from file is 1.0 and Vegas tells me PAR from file is 1.09. Unfortunately, when I check out the media properties in MediaInfo (VideoHelp.com) it doesn't display a PAR at all, so I have no independent 'ruling'. Of course, if no one else is experiencing this phenomenon then am I missing an obvious setting? Do I have a funky MPG file?

I can work around the PAR randomization 'feature' which adds a couple more clicks, but to have to colour correct each edit as well means it really isn't practical to edit in a Vegas/HF2 combination - a shame - as although not a power user, I do prefer some of Vegas' editing features. For this project I guess I'll go exclusively HF2, as it's (hopefully!) going to be special effect intensive. Apologies for the length of this post and if I've wandered a little o/t.

Cheers

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TomMc

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The root of the issue you are experiencing here is that HitFilm works with progressive footage only, and because you are sending interlaced footage from Vegas to HF, it is deinterlacing on import and therefore affecting the PAR.

The only way to work around this issue would be to deinterlace your footage before editing. Even if you deinterlace in Vegas, you will need to export the transcoded clips and reconnect, otherwise HitFilm will try to go back to the source media files.

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HitFilmer107567

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Howdy,

Thanks for the reply, however still having the same problem. Steps taken:

- render selection to new file in progressive format
- create new project using progressive file (so it is the source media)
- right click 'add hitfilm effect'

Result: PAR changed to 1.0 (from 1.09) and opened in HF2?

I hope you don't mind, but I've taken the liberty of PMing you a text file of the media info for the supposedly progressive format file. If you get a chance to look at it can you let me know if there is something wiggy with it? I didn't worry about many of the params when converting other than getting from interlaced to progressive.

Cheers

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TomMc

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Hmm, starting to push the limits of my technical skills, so I have passed the query and your txt dump on to one of our devs to have a look at.

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Hendo

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There are a couple of things going on here.

Firstly, HitFilm projects are always progressive. Even if you import interlaced movies into your HitFilm project, the project itself (the editor timeline, and any composite shot timelines) remains progressive.

As a result, .hfp files that appear as media in Vegas will always be progressive.

So if you have an event of an interlaced movie in Vegas, and then right-click it and choose "Add HitFilm Effect", the result will be that your interlaced video event will be replaced with an event of the progressive .hfp file.

Secondly, regarding pixel aspect ratios, the reason you're seeing a 1.0 PAR isn't related to interlacing. You don't need to convert your video to progressive before sending it to HitFilm in order to get the correct PAR. (You may want to do that for other reasons, since like Tom said, HitFilm prefers working with progressive formats.)

Instead, because Vegas and HitFilm are separate applications, they may have differences when it comes to detecting information about a video stream, and it looks like you've encountered one such case.

Because HitFilm cannot find a PAR in your MPEG-2 Program Stream video, it picks a default of square pixels 1.0. I'm not sure how Vegas works; it might be choosing the PAL PAR because the video's 720x576 resolution happens to match the PAL standard.

But HitFilm doesn't make this assumption. If HitFilm doesn't find an explicit PAR attribute in the video stream (and not all video streams support such an attribute), then HitFilm defaults to a PAR of 1.0.

To resolve this, just bring up the media file's Properties inside HitFilm, then untick the "From File" checkbox for the Aspect, and select 'DV PAL (1.09)'. Save the project then switch back to Vegas, and it should appear correctly now.
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